TASK FORCE TO ENGAGE
Policy Subgroup
January 4, 2007
Outcome:
Success for the day will look, sound, and feel like:
Strategies and action steps defined by small groups that
will lead to effective recommendations.
Susan Lieberman:
Welcome, please sit down. I would like to have you introduce
yourself. Please get coffee if you would like. Today is Mike’s birthday. He is
looking younger and wiser.
(Participants are introducing themselves.)
Susan Lieberman:
I am with Keeping
Let's do a quick round robin on what we just heard and the
POWERPoint presentation. I can write things down. Any thoughts? You can say pass if you have no
comment.
Participant: I like the PowerPoint, it is a useful tool.
Susan Lieberman:
Hopefully people will be comfortable with it.
Participant: I am concerned that it is so specific in scope; to me it means
all
Susan Lieberman:
We started with two directions.
Participant: And I like ours.
Participant: I was late so I will pass.
Participant: I agree with Maureen about the scope.
Participant: I will pass.
Participant: Pass.
Participant: There is a phase in the middle between dropouts and disengaged
and we need to make that stronger.
Participant: I am concerned that the POWERPoint addresses only a small
number of legislative points; it is a fairly narrow group that is targeted. I
think other groups need to be in that POWERPoint so its does not seem like a
bait and switch.
Participant: I think it is what it is meant to be. Our part is to do the
broader part, I am happy with the way the legislation looks.
Participant: I like the statistics and would like to see more in
Susan Lieberman:
That would be a good stat, how many started compared to how
many graduated.
Participant: It is encouraging that people are looking at a higher level.
People feel discouraged with all that is in it, this is an opportunity to look
at it and see if we can do better.
Participant: Can you explain, one question I have is why does it say
unplanned hospitalization?
Susan Lieberman:
A psychiatric hospitalization is not generally a planned
event. It may be anticipated but it is
not generally planned
Participant: If my child is going into the hospital, planned or
unplanned...I did not understand that.
Participant: One comment was to narrow it down and be specific about who has
the most difficulty and how to help them. If it is too broad the effect is
watered down. We are working on the immediate.
Corda Kinzie:
I have a son who had disruption in high school. We are
looking at a deficient model as opposed to a resiliency model. My son tried to
commit suicide, he went through a psychiatric evaluation, and he was a good
student but had to stay out a year instead of going right to college. He just
could not do that. I had to realize I was part of that too.
Susan Lieberman:
Thank you for your comments. Please continue to share with
the other group. I want to move
along on our group. Do you have your folders? Corda is here to help facilitate.
Remember our target population: (reading) the
recommendations of the Governor's Task Force to Engage Maine's Youth are
designed to address the problems of
I don't think I need to read the scope, please review the
statement in your packet. Last time we broke into two groups, one to look at
data and one to look at policies. I know each has been collecting data. I would
like you to break into groups and think about a couple things: one is to look at data and policies
and follow what you did last time. One is to look at outcomes.
Also in your packet (handing out packets)…we have a
lot to cover. Policy has the purple sheet, data has the pink sheet. As part of your work, we want you to
look at your outcome for the end and look at what we need to do in the next six
months to accomplish that. What do you need to do, what steps will you take.
Keep in mind we still need to look at strategy.
Also look at how you will integrate between the groups. How
will you integrate what you have, so what the data group has is useful to the
policy group and vice versa.
Who is policy? Who is data? Who is undecided? Policy is
looking at existing policy, data is looking at what is available state wide.
Please think about what you would like to do. Policy people here, data group
over here. We can move tables. We
have until 12 noon. It is less time than we wanted.
Corda Kinzie:
Does either group want a flip chart?
(Groups break out to work on policy and data.)
Policy Subgroup:
Participant: I worked with a group in the area of policy. They have a list
of policies that school systems can access to help them. The intent is not to
copy this but to use it as a start. When you look up in a school board book,
you will see policies that may have similar language but often they differ from
school to school because the school has adapted it to their needs.
That was not the intent to be verbatim. It is not policies
per school but to address district needs. Most of them are mandated ...I am not
sure of that...but a lot connect with school or
Bob Lyman:
I had a call from Susan to come and share about policies.
This is a typical policy book by district. The job of the school committee is
to review. The only time they have power to take action is to review policy.
One comment about the inauguration last night: what the governor did not
mention is the auxiliary cost because the superintendents do everything.
All policies manuals contain policy in these areas. (Handing
out papers) This is about why we exist, are we legal, what the school board
will and won't take charge of. In some districts they take charge over
everything, in others they only hire teachers. You will find wide varieties
from one district to another. Policies do have to meet state law, they cannot
be in opposition. (
They are responsible for fiscal management, some hiring,
support services such as gifted and talented, Special Ed, facilities
development and who makes those decisions. Lots of time the town makes those
decisions, it has to go through town council. Personnel, all those policies.
Negotiations...there are two districts in the state that don't have unions
because they have so few employees. Every other has that to deal with.
Instruction is a policy. The state only mandates a minimum. The local decides
the other. If a school decides that community service will be part of
instruction, they can do so. A kid can get caught in the middle.
Students...here is where most of the policy you asked for
came from. Student code of conduct: in most cases there is more than one
policy. In this one there are 18. This is a listing of policies given to school
boards. Usually when we are asked we give all 18. A work of caution: because boards have so much liberty to
adapt, it seems that no two are alike.
Participant:
Did you talk about the difference between policy and procedure?
Bob Lyman:
People don't necessarily have to adopt
the policy, that is why we focus on law. Practice covers both policy and what
is beyond it. Let's say there is a policy on student conduct on the bus, there
are practices that the bus drivers follow, those that the superintendent
follows, others things. You may want to get more into best practices.
Participant: We have had great feedback on that, along with that is how to
integrate it into a school to make best practices effective.
Participant: We need to look at recommendations; we can make them that they
be put into law. We won't be doing the work to put them in, someone else will.
Our recommendations can be fairly global.
Bob Lyman:
I brought samples. School boards have lots of flexibility in
that.
Participant: As a parent, how do I get my school to give me that?
Bob Lyman:
You go in and ask them, they may not give you the whole book
but you can request what you want.
Participant: You can ask for a list of policies and then request what you
want.
Bob Lyman:
When I become a superintendent I sat down with the book,
because it really is the Bible of the school. For the most part, things are
covered.
Participant: In most schools the procedure manual is out of date, they don't
get updated as often.
Participant: They also tend to be more specific as to janitors and bus
drivers and other positions.
Participant: You can usually ask about the procedures related to a policy.
Bob Lyman:
Here is one that just came around, that is much the same in
all districts, because the law is so strict. You can see that in this paper. (Homeless) Again, this one is very close to the
law. Most of the definitions are close to the law. This one is different, it is drug and alcohol abuse. Schools
are all over the place on this, from capital punishment to a slap on the wrist.
This one talks about a team approach. In every district you will find something
different.
Participant: To update, I am been meeting with people about substance abuse
and they are looking at different policies and procedures and you will see
something on that. They are looking at that.
Participant: It is good, because it is so different in different places.
Participant: You should see a best practices handbook in about a year.
Bob Lyman:
I brought more with me. Again, there are recommendations and
some are accepted and some are not: (reading list) dropout prevention,
weapons, school safety, removal of students, reintegration, code of conduct,
education records, discrimination and harassment procedure, etc. Here is one copy of each of these.
Participant: We are done! Let's have some ideas on where we want to go with
this. We need to develop a work plan from now until June. We need to figure our
scope of work. We can ask the youth at the table...what is the single biggest
reason you know of as to why students get disengaged? Laziness does not count.
Do you know anyone who has dropped out?
Corda Kinzie:
Let's do a think-pair-share. I will give you a minute to think by yourself, then pair up and share with someone else. Anyone who is disengaged in any way, not working, not doing much. Any teenager. When you are ready turn in one direction so we know which way we are going. Now just talk about it.
(Participants are having discussion.)
Please wrap up your discussion. Let's come back together. We
will do a whole group share. We will go around.
Why do kids disengage from school and work and life?
Participant: I have seen it happen because they are pregnant, school was
hard because she was sick a lot. I have seen it happen because of mental
illness and parents unwilling to get help. One man dropped out because a
teacher told him he should.
Participant: I saw one student who was a senior; he was in an alternative
school and did not know that he was missing credits. Over time he just spent
less and less time in school and was told he could not graduate, so he dropped
out.
Participant: Working with youth, kids who are moved around a lot, they tend
to gravitate to kids who are not doing much. They find out that their credits
are not recognized in their new schools, they get discouraged. I have seen that
a lot, they get discouraged.
Participant: There is a culture that they believe they can make more money
out of school, such as clamming or lobstering along the coast. They think it is
good pay with less structure than they get in school. They don't see the
negatives, the breakdown of the physical aspects of their bodies. Also there is a culture of low
expectation for ones with disabilities. They are not necessarily identified as
failing daily in school, but by the time they get to high school they gravitate
to others with similar disabilities or just leave.
Participant: I have seen different things,
credits transferred from different schools, pregnancies, the rigidity of
different schools, boredom.
Participant: I think it is because they are
failing many classes and they have nothing to do outside or inside school. Also
there is the fact that they fail repeatedly and get in trouble with teachers
and the principal.
Participant: It starts young. You don't just wake up one day and have
problems.
Participant: I agree. There may be some trauma that happens that causes
this; the student may not have had problems before.
Participant: I think adolescence has a lot to do with that, especially in
middle school. The thing you hear at parent conferences is "why is my kid
different?" It isn’t the school. Middle school is a difficult time.
Participant: There is a 48% turnover in elementary schools, which sets up an
atmosphere of being behind.
Participant: Lots of kids, especially in foster care and with mental health
issues, they are frequently suspended from school and that must have an
influence. They just give up. It isn’t just Special Ed.
Participant: Special education has more protection during suspension.
Participant: I ran a boarding barn for horses, I had five high school ladies
working for me after school. Only one graduated. None of them qualified under
this, all came from two-parent homes. I reflected on what was going on with
them. They were not feeling successful academically. They felt like they were
falling behind. There were no behavior issues. I think they are a forgotten
population that falls through the cracks. They don't stand out, they don't red
flag. They just quietly disappear. I talked with them. They felt they did not
have an advocate. They did not know how to catch up. They wanted to be involved
vocationally but could not do so in their first two years. All four did become
employed in time. There is this
population that we don't discuss because they are not in our agencies, they are
not in Special Ed or suspended. I am a big advocate for this population that is
quietly disappearing from our schools.
Participant: In terms of being a parent of a woman with multiple
disabilities, I never wanted her separated from her peers. But people at
schools wanted to do so. Every year I had to fight to get a teacher who would
be welcoming and hospitable to my daughter.
Students pick up on these attitudes. My daughter really had no friends
and no one who would really be with her. In ninth grade she said she could not
do this anymore. So we started a new school for a year until she felt she could
go back. It was a good break for her. She became more resilient. That is why
her education was disrupted.
Participant: My son was disrupted last year. I found that there was a stigma
attached. I feel like I fight for everything, even to have him excused to come
here. I don't think he is as disengaged as much as the teachers have disengaged
from him.
Corda Kinzie:
I put this in to help get you going. It really helps with
the process. I am going to back out because I know you have things to do.
Participant: Some of the themes are directly related to what we are talking
about. Mentoring, not getting along at school, being involved...I am struggling
with how to narrow our scope to make this useable.
Participant: One piece might be to give a list of factors of disengagement.
We got these impressions that we can forward to the data group. We can
eliminate the problem as well as make recommendations. The legislation
requiring schools to have prevention procedures is a good step. Maybe we don't
have any other recommendation around that, but identifying it is important.
Participant: As we move forward, I would like to see us stop working with
deficient models and get more strength-based. Isn’t it time to stop talking
about what is wrong and talk about what is right?
Participant: We just did some brainstorming; it might be worthwhile to say
here is the problem, what might help? We can move forward with recommendations
and strategies.
Participant: Does every school have a student assistant team? (No)
Participant: It is not mandated.
Participant: Things that have worked for us is a person who takes a personal
interest. You know who has a gift for connecting with young people. If someone
finds these young people, they become a go-to person. Wouldn’t it be nice if we
could make a more natural fit, someone to take them under their wing? It could
be another student too. Lots of students bring pain from home too. It can
overcome a host of serious problems.
Participant: Another go-to person for the parent too, maybe.
Participant: There is also perhaps a third variation, in what people don't
know about. Many parents don't know the policy, or maybe policy is not followed
or is breaking the law. We can make policy and recommend SA teams, but they
don't help.
Participant: I want to say that the training is very different now and it is
not the norm now. Because of FERPA regulations they have to be school
employees, we had bus drivers and secretaries.
Participant: Can we get feedback on this? We are identifying issues and
talking about solutions. Maybe there is a more formal way we can identify and
talk about issues. Maybe a short list, five minutes of issues. We need to
identify the big ones. What are
the factors that influence disengagement, based on the discussion we had?
Corda Kinzie:
This is a brainstorm. What you do is, use the thinkpads and
write one issue or factor that you know of on each page. You will do it
separately, right now. Then you will say them and put them into the middle,
round robin. If someone gets an idea from what you said, then they write it
down. Then we have a list. You have 30 seconds to write down why people
disengage. Write down as many as
you can think of.
(Participants are writing down issues.)
Okay. Now we start a round robin process. Say what you have
and put it into the middle. We go around until there are no more ideas. We
could categorize but maybe we do it during lunch.
Ideas on factors that influence disengagement:
Corda Kinzie:
I will make sure we have them all over lunch
Participant: It would be helpful to have them categorized. Some were lack of
flexibility, some are student based.
Corda Kinzie:
You and I can work with that.
Participant: Are we only dealing with policies around schools?
Participant: We sent out a survey to agencies to ask about youth engagement,
it is not just around schools.
Participant: Maybe after we get categories we will have a better view.
Participant: We look at school policies too, the interaction between schools
and law enforcement.
Corda Kinzie:
What else is on the agenda today? There is a report out on
policy review, a work plan development, what to do with samples.
Participant: Also look at samples on this list, maybe some are not related
to our issue. Like records, is it what schools have to do to keep them, or about
who sees them and how you access them?
Corda Kinzie:
Would the new people like history? The way to tell me is to
give me a thumbs up if you would like some history of the group.
Participant: I was provided with materials.
Participant: This is only the second time this group has met. We formed last
time. This is where we are.
Susan Lieberman:
We divided into subcommittees. The smaller groups have just
formed. It’s noon.
Participant: What does that mean, are we done for now?
Corda Kinzie:
Lunch is in the other room. Mike and I will brainstorm.
(Group breaks for lunch at 12:00 and resumes at 1:00 PM.)
Scope of Work:
Keeping
Susan Lieberman:
We will take a few minutes and do a check in. A couple
things...I want to have each group give an update on what you have done and where
you are heading, and what you hope to accomplish and how far you are with your
outcome chart. I want to have a
brief conversation on how we integrate our work. We want to talk about how we
work together.
I would like to point out the quote for today; I don't see
it up here. “We must be the change we wish to see in the world.” (Ghandi) Pam came up with that, she wasn’t
able to be here. This is the opportunity to influence practice. Let's start with an update.
Participant: We in the policy group started with a go-around of issues that
can cause disengagement. With the idea of identifying problems and following up
with solutions, our work this afternoon will be to look at policies that
influence engagement.
Susan Lieberman:
You have categories.
Participant: We had to write down the scope of work again, we need to keep
returning to that. There is so much stuff. We have an agenda for the afternoon.
Susan Lieberman:
One key point is to make recommendations. We don't have to
do the development, we make recommendations.
They are looking at policy and legislation, at the same
time. Data group?
Participant: We brainstormed a list of broad categories and brought a lot,
it was overwhelming. This morning we looked at identifying the categories and
cross-referencing. We are looking at what is available and what is missing that
we want to track. All the reports we look at end with recommendations and
strategy.
We looked at broad categories, such as education, and what
we want to define under those. We want to track it if we don't have it, so we
need to find it. We will continue doing things electronically.
Susan Lieberman:
The next question is how to integrate the information. They
will look at categories of data.
Participant: It sounds like you have identified categories that are not like
ours. I wonder if we can identify where we are touching.
Participant: Now our categories are fluid.
Participant: Maybe we narrow it down.
Participant: As you are talking, if you come up with something, maybe we
already have it on our list.
Susan Lieberman:
They will also have more extensive data next month.
Participant: The morning POWERPoint showed me holes in the data.
Susan Lieberman:
They are identifying what is missing and are bringing in
people.
Are people comfortable with where you are now? You have an
hour this afternoon, but let's make it until 2:30 and then have shorter
updates. I am not sure if we come together as a large group. (No) How
late can people stay, 3:00 PM? Let's do updates and next steps from 2:45 until
3:15.
(Participants are breaking into groups.)
Participant: I want to share something that happened at lunch. One young man
was talking with me. In a class something was offered during a week when he had
suspension. The teacher was not obligated to let him make that up. I thought I
would share it with you.
Participant: That is an area where districts have flexibility. The policy
and follow-up is up to the district.
Participant: I don't know the details. He was just saying he asked for help
and did not get it.
Participant: I know of one school where a teacher offers an after-school
help session and does not have to offer help during school.
Participant: Lots of that can become a challenge.
Participant: We will get this typed, it is all sorted. The categories may
change, the titles too. We took piles and named them.
Participant: Here is our agenda. We have to stop in time to make a work
plan. We will get this done but we need a plan.
Participant: We were thinking of categories. One is the homework piece. We
can take this as a homework piece. We can take this list and between now and
the next meeting we go through it. It is a list of issues. The next step is to
ask people what would help. Try to be fairly specific as far as strategies.
What can create a champion? The next column is for related issues. The last
column is specific actions. How do we change the policy? Maybe the final step
is something we want to modify. The idea is that you will get this grid and we
ask you to plug ideas into it. It will be E-mail. We also welcome feedback on altering that plan.
Participant: Does it make sense?
Participant: I think it is a good start.
Participant: So next meeting we come back with a list.
Participant: I can put it in a grid if you want to E-mail it to me.
Participant: We will do that.
Participant: It is important to be discrete though so we don't collapse by
person. As a group we can wrestle with those. One person may have a policy that
affects three different things.
Participant: I won't edit. I will put everything in. If I get it done early
I can send it out to you again.
Participant: It would put us further along for the next meeting.
Participant: Our next meeting is February 1.
Participant: This will go out to you by the end of next week.
Susan Lieberman:
I can help with the logistics of putting that down.
Participant: This will go out to you by January 12.
Participant: If we had them back by the 19th it gives you a week to turn
them around.
Participant: Let's say the 22nd.
Participant: I might be able to get it back to you by the 23rd.
Participant: The 19th, I can work with that.
Susan Lieberman:
You can give input after also.
Participant: Even if we had it back by the first of the week prior, it would
be okay.
Participant: That is the first piece done!
Participant: The next step is to look at the
policies we looked at individually. We want to share them, from the perspective
of how they impact student engagement.
Susan Lieberman:
And also how they will fit into that chart.
Participant: I did not review any policy. I was gone.
Participant: Most of the stuff I got back was not policy, it was other
issues.
Participant: There is the law, the statute, then there is the agency that
carries the law but is not in the statute. Lots of DOE’s ruling is not in the
statute itself. It is almost procedural that follows from the law.
Participant: When the legislature puts it into law, I think of that as law.
Then the charge is for which agency is responsible to carry that out. That is
why policy process has different possibilities. One is with the intent of
legislation; the other is to introduce legislature that is not necessarily
consistent.
Participant: The actual content is not statute, but is required by statute.
Susan Lieberman:
So how the school interprets that...
Participant: There are requirements that are used, but there is flexibility
in how the standards are measured. You have the law, you have the content that
is not law but is required, then you have the policy that is written by the
district to meet that. Curriculum
needs to be aligned with standards.
Susan Lieberman:
We need to understand how it is implemented and designed.
Participant: We asked for policies or regulations. What policies or
regulations can you identify?
Participant: DHS child welfare example...there is a policy making process
also. There is no requirement for that; it is an internal process that requires
no public input. That is a substantial piece to what caseworkers do.
Susan Lieberman:
I think it is another question we need to ask. A good point.
Participant: The truancy policy...I have extra copies. The cover sheet shows
a statute, every district must have a policy that reflects statute but can
exceed statute. There is some tailoring as to the
number of days a student can miss. (Reading definition) you will see
districts will always define excused and unexcused with a great deal of
flexibility. What is excused or unexcused varies.
Susan Lieberman:
I thought it was consistent.
Participant: There are informal and formal corrections.
Participant: I am trying to see where that is. It is in the big book of 20A.
There are health reasons, five or so different categories. One is educational
vacation, it is flexible. There
is a lot of variation. There is also the challenge of students who disappear
for a time, and then reappear or appear in another district. There is not a lot
in that case.
Participant: One expectation is attendance policy. That is a connection.
Participant: The statute identifies what the district is supposed to do, and
the school can do it whether or not the parent is involved. Ultimately if the
student is unwilling to attend, the district feels that there are not many
options left. (Reading from handout.) The school may talk with law
enforcement; maybe talk with the judge...
Participant: I wonder if we need to look at where we can affect this.
Susan Lieberman:
I think you are right.
Participant: It sounds like you have specific actions in mind.
Participant: Lots of times the specific actions are not taken. Another
breakdown is that law enforcement does not have the time to get involved.
Susan Lieberman:
How does this help?
Participant: A recent change is the steps the district is to take. The
district is required to report data on truancy, but not required to report
their action. It seems to me if they are required to report on the action that
they take, on their intervention…
Participant: There is not an action plan for a habitual truant. It is one
thing to report, it is another to report on the action.
Participant: There is a mandate but they are not required to report on
specific cases. They have to report on actions that were brought, which is a
legal action.
Participant: It does not say you have to develop an IEP. That I think is
missing.
Participant: It does not require a plan.
Susan Lieberman:
We are missing the piece of consistent implementation.
Participant: I think the list is great, but it says, "may
include."
Participant: It is unfortunate that a substantial part means nothing.
Participant: We don't want to fix it this minute; we want to get general ideas
now.
Participant: One step is to refer. There is no requirement for them to
respond. Most districts will tell you they don't refer because they don't get a
response.
Participant: There are also social penalties that they incur.
Participant: I think a statutory implementation to connect people to the
right agency.
Participant: We can look into accountability.
Participant: There should be a required plan. They mention one but don't
require one.
Participant: There should be a mirror for that on the other side.
Participant: Follow through.
Participant:…in the form of a benchmark for which they are held responsible.
Participant: I struggle with the part of law enforcement; it is nice but not
functional.
Susan Lieberman:
We can come back to this with specific questions. You have
good questions and I think an expert could explain.
Participant: Does it make sense to have this integrated for students who are
having challenges with SA teams?
Participant: There are specific teams to help with that.
Participant: I think the dropout committee could take this on and deal with
the habitual truants.
Participant: It is a district-wide committee. Some do really well. They
really should be the big picture people who advocate for habitual truants.
There should be a team approach to develop the investment in this kid for
reintegration or reconnection with school in some way. I would like to see
something like a community approach to this. Otherwise you put the onus on the
school. I don't think it is just about school.
Participant: Do we need to add anything?
Participant: Lots of police have youth advocate officers, school officers,
it seems they need to be part of this.
Participant: I agree. I saw this in one school regarding tobacco.
Participant: There is another piece. If you read the draft regs for Special
Ed, they are espousing a national referral that applies to kids being
considered, they have to go through a process of doing evaluation at a more
personal level. The regs are making this a requirement. The challenge is that
there is not a mirror of that policy in essential programs. So we are telling
them to reduce the number in Special Ed, add services, all of which is not
doable at cost. Districts will be figuring out how to do this. I don't think they
can. I think we need to recognize that they need to come together.
Participant: Draft regulation and policy are not on the same page.
Participant: Budget is based on assumption.
Participant: Excused absence is under a different category. (Reading) We have policies that were given to
us that we have not seen. Many seem to be procedural ones, such as weapons. I
don't know that policy will make a difference.
Susan Lieberman:
We requested a lot.
Participant: I think we should read deeper into it. I checked off seven.
Truancy was one.
Susan Lieberman:
We only have these hard copies. How do you want to do this?
Participant: I have a list, but it is not a small list. It is not this one.
Participant: The one I got was around DHHS. I pulled out several things. I
found something about school transfer policy.
Participant: I can read the part about Special Ed.
Participant: This person was looking for the hospital to be in on the plan.
Ideas were a discharge plan.
Participant: Who would have the data for this?
Susan Lieberman:
It is just being introduced to district offices now. It is very new. The idea was to look
at how kids are moving to and from different school districts. We have just
gone into a couple offices. It tells you what you can do and not do when a
child enters that school. That was the purpose.
Participant: This is policy now?
Susan Lieberman:
It is existing policy, it recognizes that kids move. There
are challenges associated.
Participant: Policy should be in place for all students, not just DHHS. Even
if it is just a card that is sent out.
Participant: It is a fundamental part of it, but only for those students
defined.
Participant: It also says that DHHS will make sure no academic credits are
lost. Am I reading too much into that?
Participant: Kids who are moved under this...
Susan Lieberman:
The new legislation is for kids who have experienced
disruption for ten days or move. This here talks about kids who are in
different schools.
Participant: I think that is one that needs a mirror on the other side. It
is one thing to tell DHHS to do it, DOE needs to clarify and recognize DHHS as
part of the team.
Susan Lieberman:
Who needs to recognize that?
Participant: DOE. Now might be a good time to do it.
Participant: There was something else about providing accommodations for
students. Unless there is a label we cannot provide accommodations, we need to
look at that especially for ones slipping through the cracks.
Participant: Some local guidelines require accommodations. That might be one
where the policy needs to be eliminated or extended to all.
Participant: The issue is that kids need what?
Participant: Kids don't have access to
accommodations when they need them. They are mandated in Special Education, but
what I heard her say was that they need a specific label. Many schools
interpret that as being only for students in Special Ed.
Participant: It is an issue. It may not be policy.
Participant: It is part of the rule around the local assessment. It is
allowable under local assessment but is not always well utilized. An example is
a student who does not read well and is taking a math test. The test is on his
math abilities and not his reading, maybe he needs to have it read to him
although he is not in Special Ed.
Susan Lieberman:
It goes back to policies or issues.
Participant: We will say so if it is policy.
Participant: I think it is a policy issue because the state is implementing
it.
Participant: The state is not mandating. In No Child Left Behind it is a way
to address referral. It does not say in the regs, it doesn’t equal RTI. It is
one way to do it. People are misinterpreting it.
Participant: There is also an EPS current draft that sets caps on state
responsibility. One is the percent of students that can be identified for
Special Ed. This is not required, but what is your choice?
Participant: I wonder if strategy or policy would help this.
Participant: The training of education personnel needs to be encouraged. The
basis of Special Ed is access to basic curriculum.
Participant: Where does Universal Design fit in here?
Susan Lieberman:
This is a
huge category. There are learning styles; it is huge. We need to understand
what is related to this.
Participant: We started with brainstorming to identify issues, now we have
others also. It sounds like we are getting far afield. Help us out, what should
we look at?
Participant: One thing in that pile is the dropout prevention committee. Who
is in it, the frequency...
Participant: Should that be an issue we look at it?
Participant: Yes. It is mandated by law. They meet once a year.
Participant: That frequency could be looked at.
Participant: In the homeless policy you have to have a liaison. It would be
nice if they were on the dropout committee.
Participant: Part is helping each. When I went through training I went to 65
schools, the dropout committees have no training. It is not how to work
together as a committee.
Susan Lieberman:
Should we put enhanced training?
Participant: So when you get this, there is more to add.
Participant: There are a couple where the principal makes decisions, such as
transferring credits.
Participant: It is not mandated to attend dropout prevention training. But
other committees have training requirements. If you use that as a model, there
needs to be a model for training. I was on committees because of needing to
meet a mandate. I was on another without a vision of what we were doing.
Participant: Should it be on the chart as a separate thing?
Susan Lieberman:
I am writing this as so, we need to look at it.
Participant: I just added suspension and expulsion to look at later.
Participant: We need to each take some to look at them.
Participant: I want to add SA teams here too.
Participant: What next? Are you burned out? We can switch topics.
Susan Lieberman:
You have 20 minutes.
Participant: I think you need to add compulsory attendance to truancy also.
Participant: I think we need to look at this report that CCI did as part of
our work. There is some policy in this. It is 56 pages. I will look at it and
pull out what is relevant.
Participant: I was thinking of secondary transition. People come up with a
plan to help you get to where you want to be after school.
Participant: Where are SA teams?
Participant: They are in schools.
Participant: Do some have 504 teams?
Participant: By regulation they have to have people on the team who know the
student. If you don't have enough people to be on the team, you may have an
exception. A 504 looks at things like handicaps, where an SA team may not. The
process is very different.
I will pass this out. It is from GED students and is about
why they dropped out.
Participant: I want to clarify, SA teams are not mandatory? (Correct)
Participant: Some superintendents mandate that all their schools have them,
that is the only way it can be mandated.
Participant: Is it reasonable to think that there may be data there, that
there may be a lower rate of children leaving? Disengaged sounds to me like
kids are getting lost.
Participant: Schools that have it throughout the district may have a lower
dropout rate. In Lakes Region every kid who is at risk of dropping out or
getting suspended has an individual plan for reintegrating.
Participant: But the SA team, is it only for truants?
Participant: It is for any child with a crisis.
Participant: They determine their target population. They generally take any
student that is referred. You cannot mandate what they do.
Participant: Can you think about it and maybe add it as a recommendation?
Participant: The reasons that they quit...I don't see that up there. If you
look at this GED report, most of them said disconnection.
Participant: We saw that this morning. Is it okay if we go with what we have
here, plus what we did this morning? I will send it to you for recommendations
and you can send it back.
Participant: Does everyone have some to work on? We are trying to review
these and see if there is anything that relates to these policies. If we assume
that by June we will have an outcome, tell me how you want to fill this out.
Participant: By April and May we should have drafts.
Participant: So wordsmithing in April and May.
Participant: We need to hook up with the others also.
Participant: I assume in March we work on developing and finalizing the
draft.
Susan Lieberman:
The areas we are looking at are data, best policies, and
strategy. Earlier today you started to delve into strategy. For this group it
will meld. You will look at both. You need to include both names to remind you
that others are looking at strategies also.
Participant: I want to clarify...by June, do you mean we have a June
meeting?
Susan Lieberman:
It is good to have a deadline. We will have a meeting.
Participant: So by the end of the June meeting we should be done.
Susan Lieberman:
There is also some interesting data on the number of kids
who move, CWS tracks it.
Participant: I think it would be interesting to look at that. So many kids
move.
Susan Lieberman:
This tells you how many times they move within the Child
Welfare System. Let's go around.
Participant: Let me reflect for a moment.
Participant: It is interesting, a great discussion. One thing you can do is
take these issues and bring in the data to clarify it. If I was suggesting a
strategy, I could quote something. Anything we make could be backed up by data.
It would be nice to have that.
Participant: We are putting that on their chart.
Participant: One way to integrate this is to use the data to support the
strategy recommendations.
Participant: Everything we say leads to another piece and it is hard to keep
track of everything.
Susan Lieberman:
Do you feel we are moving in the right direction?
Participant: Yes. The chart we will have at the next meeting will help.
Participant: I plan to send some suggestion. The business of how to bring
this together...there is a process in DHHS to look at data. It is nice to look
at used data but you should not stand behind it. It may not meet your
requirements. Somehow the work of this needs to be linked so people are not
wasting their time. That is what we were attempting to do in looking at
truancy.
Participant: I feel good about this. I observed today a variety of problems
solved. Doing this as homework, you can put in your opinion on what it should
be. That is a great start. We can decide where to start moving forward. It is a
way to do it with a larger group. Dean’s comment brought up that we don't want
to forget to recommend looking at data. It is also not to disregard small pools
of data. We can get a sense of even a brief survey, such as the group we have
here.
Participant: This was a small survey from GED, you get a good sense of what
they are thinking.
Participant: You get a sense that there is a strong correlation. We want to
use it correctly. Having kids here also is a valid way of taking temperature
also.
Participant: It is a snapshot.
Participant: Yes.
Participant: We have a lot of help today; I think we got a lot done.
(Whole group reconvenes at 2:48.)
Susan Lieberman:
Let's have updates. Does the data group want to go first?
They interviewed people about additional data.
Participant: We interviewed people in different agencies as to what they
collect and what is missing and not collected at all. We will be developing a
matrix with this information. We all have information to enter in it and will
look at the categories that are missing. We will hear from other people in the
field at the next meeting.
Participant: We were thinking about merging the groups to share strategies
in April and May so this is finished by June.
Susan Lieberman:
Why don't we do an update with the other group?
Participant: We identified a way to list the issues, strategies to help, and
specific actions. We did some work here on reasons and problems. We have a lot
of topics to plug in here. We will send it out and get it back. But we need
data. We have you down for February for data. We want to let you know what we
need.
Susan Lieberman:
You may be coming up with things that will benefit them.
Participant: If we can get together sooner, it would help.
Participant: We have people coming in during February that may help you too.
Phil Davis and Dana Duncan.
Participant: I don't know if we need to get together yet, it may be that we
need to give you some of our work in progress.
Participant: And we will have our list that we can send to you.
Participant: We picked February because for us April is drafting.
Participant: I wasn’t clear, that is what we mean.
Susan Lieberman:
So working separately in February and March and melding in
April. Does everyone feel good about the work that they did today? There is a response form in your
packet.
There is also a form to fill out for the state to evaluate how meetings are going.
(Meeting ends at 3:00 PM.)
Themes Identified for Recommendations:
1. Transition planning, educational and vocational
opportunities for students of all ages
2. Personalized learning opportunities: personalized
learning plans based on individual learning styles and needs
3. Communication and connections: Active engagement with youth and among those involved with
youth
4. Quality assurance:
Data collection (actively collecting data on youth), monitoring
5. Building on existing or emerging evidence based practices
By June 30, 2007 we will have:
Issues and
Recommendations Chart
Issue: Truancy (LD 1082)
Strategies, policies,
Legislation that would help:
Other related
challenges:
Specific
actions/recommendations:
Issue: DHHS student transfer policy and practice: (v.k.-3 DHHS Policy)
Strategies, policies,
Legislation that would help:
Other related
challenges:
Specific
actions/recommendations:
Issue: Access to needed accommodations
Strategies, policies,
Legislation that would help:
Other related
challenges:
Specific actions/recommendations:
Issue: Drop-out prevention policy
Strategies, policies,
Legislation that would help:
Other related
challenges:
Specific
actions/recommendations:
Issue: SA Teams
Strategies, policies,
Legislation that would help:
Other related
challenges:
Specific
actions/recommendations:
Issue: Secondary transition
Strategies, policies,
Legislation that would help:
Other related
challenges:
Specific
actions/recommendations: